Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Here you will find information and tips on outdoor activities, wilderness safety and survival, equipment, first aid, health, and other related items of interest to hikers, backpackers, and other outdoor enthusiasts. This knife was popular during the second world war and I will assume that so are the people who knew a lot about it. Why? The sharpening stone size shall be 3 inches long, 7/8-inch-wide, and 1/4 inch thick. camillus knife identification. down, risers and lines. The original parkerization is worn a bit and it has been sharpened, and there was some paint that mostly has chipped off. Thanks for the feedback. Frank explained that Camillus made 4 versions of this blade, 3 of which were adopted by the military. Thanks for all the photos. The 7-inch knife was not military issued knife. touched them in anyway, as you see them is how they were in the showroom. That, however, only makes getting the exact era that these fine knives came from a more interesting affair. Must have forgotten to take it out when I updated the piece with the second bullet point, Your email address will not be published. You need to get the knife out to cut your way out. Both products contained a second active ingredient, salicylanilide. If it comes with a sheath, there wont be a factory embossed stamp on it. Now, the efficacy of this model relies on having an antique book (or maybe a knife expert with access to such a book) that you can date the knife with. Instead, he sought out a smaller cutlery brand in Camillus and joined the management team. So far I have not found the S card for unknown variant like the Marbles above. That way, you have a more realistic approach to what you can expect and you dont beat yourself up if its looking harder than usual to pin a date on that fine, historic knife. S1408: This is a prototype Camillus sent in to alter the Currently, one pesticide product is registered to contain para-nitrophenol as an active ingredient. Camillus clearly had skinning in mind with this knife. Possibly, some may have had one issued to them while serving in the military. Your email address will not be published. The guard is stamped CAMILLUS on one side, U.S.N. generate quite a few questions so we hope this is a help to a few folks. It has a decent leather scabbard with no hole in the tip and leather cords intact, as well as the stone with similar markings as others Ive seen. Did Camillus Make Other Brands Knives on Contract? In 1962, the knife was modified by reducing the blade to 5" in length. It appears that in 2006, Ontario Knife Company became the current vendor to the DoD of the Jet Pilot Survival Knife under the National Stock Number (NSN): 7340-00-098-4327. True, those origins are shrouded in a lot of poor occurrences but the knives stayed on to mark those eras and the good work of manufacturers in, Read More How to Tell the Age of a Marbles Knife by Yourself (5 Methods)Continue, The Case Kodiak is one of the most interesting exports from the company and continues to command a high price today. That same year, the Marble-Arms Corporation (now known as Marbles) began work on designing their prototype for the survival knife based on the government specifications. Not looking to sell it. The knife is about 12 / 30.5 cm overall; blued blade is about 6-15/16 /17.7 cm. Here is an example what I'm talking about, this is the grouping of Mark 1 knives with the designation of MARK 1 on the ricasso and treated blades. The picture I posted is of a knife I had bid on in an auction, but did not win. Otherwise, the serial number might not be able to do so much for you. Interesting article. Make sure to have a line of processes that they took to arrive at whatever timeframe they gave you. Camillus Cutlery Company won the contract and made the first production run on Jan. 27, 1943. the markings are all the same and in the same place as the originals. (222) $59.00. The tang stamp on this knife is post Government contract era. I will highly recommend this site! For all that good, though, some bad actors have learned how to make fake Camillus knives and pass them off as vintage. USMC Raider reproduction with fine pewter handle. J5 Forest King etched with prototype J-5 on the blade. Made after march 1985 to 2006. It doesn't get any better then this S-449 A and S-449B Prototype Hunting Knives with different Beyond that I do not know if they were swapped out. Another Kent with stagged Rosewood, brass pins and etched. Made after 1989 to 2006 (I think) H Hondapop Joined Jul 18, 2016 Messages 3 Jul 19, 2016 #10 Coastiekevink said: Ok.I'll ask! Mikedon thanks for posting the pictures. In June of '60, the contract was changed to requiring a peened pommel (as was used on all later production). There is a variation of a Parkerized blade Camillus MARK 1 with no branch of service markings, (Cole III, pg. I had the Colonial and Geneva knives flipped the wrong way, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. has the Mark 2 pommel not the M3 version. Co.Arc-shapedUSA, or Union; Stainless1912 1925Tidioute CUT. It is possible that the knife may have been purchased commercially and not issued through the supply chain. The OP had such and an easy question, one would think. The post-1962 knives were produced by the Camillus Cutlery Company and Milpar during the Vietnam Era. Additionally, the jet age in military aviation increased the number of gear pilots and aircrews had to carry on their flights. I know my knives - maybe not as well as my mother - but enough to write helpful guides for you. Camillus Proptotype with 5 inches blade which was not accepted. The genesis of the Air Force Survival Knife goes back to the 1950s at the dawn of the jet age. M4 Bayonet Production Aerial Cutlery Company: 91,898 Camillus Cutlery Company: 332,698 W.R. Case & Sons Cutlery Co.: 224,764 Imperial Knife Company: 917,894 Kinfolks, Inc: 119,702 Pal Blade Company: 268,000 Utica Cutlery Company: 515,000 Thus, the current standards, methods, and procedures were not necessarily applicable to the procurement process that brought this knife into existence. If you dont find your stamp and logo from there, use the official stamp/ logo guide from the official Ka-bar website as seen below: There is a lot that you can tell about the Ka-bar knife from the markings on the blade. Try any of the methods above to identify the ka-bar knife you have, and provide a very good estimate of the date when it launched also. edge. I am about to show her this blog post and additionally rub it in a little! They are hard to find. Another unmarked Prototype hunter with stagged Rosewoods Any review of World War II military fixed blades must include several examples of Western knives. Thanks again for writing about this knife and taking the time to research it and share your findings. Also it is not cut to put on a belt. 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Nickel silver guards made in 1948. If you happen to have, Read More How to Date A Case Kodiak Knife by Yourself (Expert Advice)Continue, Klein knives are clear vintages, and theyre one of those knives that went to the war. S-5382 Half guard prototype with scaler back and 3 small I have never heard it being issued in the Navy but can say without a doubt many all of us flight crew members were issued one. To re-arrange a genuine item like this would be quite a task. I was hoping to find the history of these knives, along with pics of the different versions and years. Thanks for your response. Each contractor had their personal signatures, better described as authorized deviations. This is the #3 knife Camillus submitted for the test. Frank reports that Marbles was supplying the Ideal to the Government as early as 1934. However, this was not the end of the aging Air Force Survival Knife. In the guides to dating Schrade knives, dating kissing crane knives, and knowing what era your ka-bar knife is from, there were a lot of years to deal with. I like that, but cannot figure out what type of knife that may be. But your saying the WW2 knives dont have pins at all?, just peened? I was wondering if you had run across anything about the dates on the pommel nut. by orvet Thu May 30, 2013 2:01 pm, Post Thanks for taking the time to read. Additionally, synthetic composite materials like Kevlar had not been fully integrated into aircraft construction until the late 1970s and 1980s. What is the white dot on the handle? St Louis with Indian Trail grooved bone and large rivets. Entertaining and informing. The handle was cut from the same belt using a sharpened piece of steel tubing to make washers then tightened down with a nut off an old tractor head. Copyright 2004-2023 allaboutpocketknives.com, AAPK Tips and Tricks -- An Illustrated FAQ Forum on Steriods, Knife Lore - Traditional Knives From the Old Days, Canal Street Cutlery Collector's Forum, Cattaraugus Cutlery Collector's Forum, Great Eastern Cutlery (GEC) Collector's Forum, Robeson Cutlery Company Collector's Forum, Schatt & Morgan Knife Collector's Forum, Knife Related Creation, Modification, And Restoration Forums. knife. My friend and I were just talking about this specific subject, she actually is normally attempting to prove me completely wrong! The bit telltale difference is the sharpened false edge. Look at these two knives in the photo below. If it were possible to convert you surely would be able to! Buying via the links on CutsandCarves could earn us a commission on the sale. Camillus was also notorious for sometimes mixing up the tang stamps. silver. In 1983, this registration was amended to add the use of the product for incorporation into cork insulation for military use. S-6541 marked Guarded Version stagged Rosewood with brass pins marked Kent S-6541 marked, Another as above As above with different tang markings, still a Kent The pilots, survival, sheathed, hunting knife shall consist of a metal blade with a leather grip, riveted butt plate, guard, guard and end plates, leather sheath with a pocket for containing the sharpening stone, nylon laces, and a metal sheath protector to prevent the tip of the knife from penetrating the bottom or underside of the sheath. The Camillus Cutlery company also produced: Their production capacity was expanded during the second world war when they had to manufacture a lot of high-quality knives to meet the needs of the soldiers shipping off to war. I may also be able to confirm if the knife was a gift from my uncle who worked on helicopter camera equipment in the Vietnam war. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Most folks don't know Camillus 1996 Combination Folding Knife USN $24.99 1 bid $5.60 shipping 3d 14h Vintage Camillus New York USA Santa Fe Stoneworks Premium Folding Pocket Knife $84.99 Was: $99.99 or Best Offer SPONSORED Vintage 4 Blade CAMILLUS 1981 USA Military Survival Pocket Knife - SKU 1617 In the guides to dating Schrade knives, dating kissing crane knives, and knowing what era your ka-bar knife is from, there were a lot of years to deal with. This is the early AAC We see this one constantly on sale as a "Vietnam There are many variables to take into consideration and a general genealogy of dating can be made with Mark 1 knives. I have had this since about 1978 and Im sure the knife itself is a few years older than that. The WW II era knife has a long sweeping false edge while the current http://usmilitaryknives.com/knife_knotes_7.htm. In the early 2000s, the U.S. Army published requirements to private industry for an aviation survival knife to replace the aging Air Force Survival Knife. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. After all, we can also use the form of the knife to estimate what era it came in. The second question that arises concerning some of the features of this knife is the purpose of the two holes in the blade guard. Meet The Camillus Pro Staff Survivalists, Hunters, Military and more Camillus Design Partners Knives, machetes and tools designed by the best in the business Social Photos #camillus Acme United Corporation 1 Waterview Drive, Suite 200, Shelton, CT 06484 The Ontario Knife Company identifies this knife as the 499 Air Force Survival Knife on their website. bone and 1466 dozen made in stagged Rosewood. Dale AAPK Administrator Dated 1/25/1943 on the order. Some extremely valid points! This causes a lot of confusion, Tyler, but the pommel peen is a better method to determine the WW2 knife. These influences upon the procurement system tempered the DoD design features of the knife. I would say its one of the best knives ever! Some of the best knives that we know today either came before any of the World Wars or were made because of one or both of those wars. knife that was adopted. I have a Camillus USA 5 fixed blade knife that was issued to me between 1964-1965 as a flight crew member in Patrol Squadron 8, VP-8 Anti submarine warfare squadron. The sharpening stone also has no marks as they were probably worn off from use. by ken6 Wed May 29, 2013 11:11 pm, Post Camillus was so successful a knife brand that other knifemakers contracted them to manufacture their blades. Quality knives and tools with lowest prices. The rarest USMC knife in Go to their site and select the brand name Ontario, (they are the current supplier for these knives), on that page select sheaths, the one your looking for is on the second page, its marked to fit the model 499 knife, (Ontario's part number). Knives made by top companies were featured in catalogs that were either internally maintained or sent out to dealers and collectors. You are correct. Now that you have established the ka-bar knife and got the markings to know what kind of issue it is, how about knowing if it is a WW2 knife or not? However, based on the information that I have collected, vetted, and coupled with my own experience with the DoD procurement and testing process, here is the basic history of this knife. Camillus wanted to send the knife with a hack saw blade attached to the markings are all the same and in the same place as the originals. In most of the places that Ive come across a Klein knife, it was either a military electricians knife or for another handyman. Thus, finding ways of reducing the bulk of the Aviation Life Support Equipment (ALSE) assisted in the overall weight considerations for flying. Stagged Rosewood, CR guard Ive bookmarked your site and Im including your RSS feeds to my Google account. These two knives are commonly identified as WW2 pilots knives. I am 63 yo and have had this knife since I was a teenager. If the knife does not have the leather handle, it is most likely a knock off produced for the civilian market. I personally looked into every draw and found these steel dome pins. If you look closely at it the tang stamp is for an early example of that fullered blade, and so far is the only example of one with this style hilt that I've run across. 5684 L77A: Camillus tried to talk Naval Ordnance into using Here is an earlier & longer pilot (aircrew) survival knife by Camillus aka, the Folding Bolo- Army Air Corp Emergency Machete a.jpg Army Air Corp Emergency Machete.jpg Here it is folded- Army Air Corp Emergency Machete j.jpg You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. I have pictures from a 1946 Camillus catalog titled Knives that went to war. Check the beautiful knives below: That guide alone is not enough to go on, but it gives you a general clue into your knifes era. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Origins Of A New Survival Knife for Military Aircrews, The Air Force Survival Knife Introduced to the Commercial Market, Design Features for the Air Force Survival Knife, The blade is to be a through tang blade blanked from AISI 1095 steel conforming to MIL-S-8665, The blade will be tempered to a Rockwell Hardness of C50-C55. Two other bidders decided that the knife was worth at least 4X more than what I thought the knife was worth to me, so one of them has it. Below are some timelines for you to explore:Tang StampStamp DesignExtra MarkingsDateUnion Cutlery Co., Tidioute, Pa;Union Cut. I appreciate the vote of confidence . Camillus Kabar Knife History. An interesting fact was that in 1944 the BuOrd wanted all the contractors to switch to the pommel to that provided on the PAL knives, it created a big stink because it required all sorts of adjustments on the assembly line and extra pressure on those existing contractors that actually made the pommel. I got my first one from an electricians mate on the CG Cutter I was serving aboard back in the 70s. The bolt has a chip near the center so maybe it was well used as a hammer. Most of the information that I have collected about the knife comes from blogs and knife forums on the internet. spacer arrangements. December 15, 2017 in EDGED WEAPONS. While some are very rare, such as the L-76, L-77, "Bushman" and USMC parachutist knives, several examples are more ubiquitous. the knife is a Camillus model number 5733. You are able to get the knife because it is dummy corded to you. Find out more below. The dummy cord is tied on a hole at the blade guard and then it is sewn in the green pouch. It is the SP 2, Survival Knife. of Tom Williams, Camillus factory historian, I have assembled the The knife was originally designed in 1957 as a joint issue between the Navy Weapons Bureau and the Marbles Arms Company. Dustin- Great information! Companies interested in gaining the government contract received these requirements and submitted proposals for consideration based on those requirements. Do you think your Camillus is older than your friends, but neither is sure? No matter the reason for wanting to date that blade, these methods will get you an accurate year or an era, at worst. So both of mine in the first post are wartime? oldjunkagain. stagged Rosewood with brass pins, S-6541 marked Guarded Version stagged Rosewood with brass It is knives like these that make some people on the outside question why Case knives are so expensive when they are just a great value for their money. Below the knives are short write up of what they are. Both have leather grips. Most would say no to such a deed. Very creative, one of the nicer sites I have seen today. The iconic design features of the knife, that have characterized its look, have remained unchanged since its inception. Can't recall seeing. head pommel. Kent Sportsman's knife with stagged Rosewood grips and Here are some links to other threads touching on this subject. Like it was with dating kissing crane knives, establishing the era that a Ka-bar knife came from can be a bit challenging. When speaking with them, make sure youre clear that youre not looking to sell. Still,, Read More How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods)Continue, The Case Kodiak is one of the most interesting exports from the company and continues to command a high price today. They've put a pretty generous recurve in the blade and shape of the handle plays well with standard and reverse grips. Because of this, an exact dating system is impossible. You could find either the USMC or USN MK2 marking on the knife. All of these make the recipe for a truly great knife that deserves our attention. Required fields are marked *. As a result, the Ontario Knife Company developed a prototype based on the 1957 design that was first submitted by Marble. I have a one of the knives that came out of a survival kit. Phillip; The M3 knife consists of 3 pressed steel parts: The blade, the hilt and the pommel washer. While the true nature of the knife remained the same, the naming system and stamp models were not the same anymore. The Air Force Survival Knife was designed to meet a particular requirement for the military. I know my knives - maybe not as well as my mother - but enough to write helpful guides for you. The bit telltale difference is the sharpened false This was one they wanted to make but never did. It is marked U.S.N over MARK I. I suspect it is Vietnam era from its condition. Mine is an old C make still kept in my truck. Otherwise, have someone who does. They adopted the single pin Sent to the Jeffersonville Quartermaster, it is essentially a 6 They all now have similar appearances, a conformity if you will. As authorized deviations old C make still kept in my truck but your saying the WW2 dont! Of confusion, Tyler, but the pommel nut help to a few folks a teenager to... ( Cole III, pg talking about this knife and taking the to. Catalogs that were either internally maintained or sent out to dealers and collectors but not! Arises concerning some of the knife were adopted by the Camillus Cutlery Company and Milpar during the Vietnam.. The tang stamp on it friend and i will assume that so are people. That arises concerning some of the features of the best knives ever register... Geneva knives flipped the wrong way, you need to get the because! The form of the knives are commonly identified as WW2 pilots knives )... Blades must include several examples of Western knives ingredient, salicylanilide is the # 3 knife Camillus for! 1950S at the dawn of the two holes in the military knives!... Stone also has no marks as they were probably worn off from camillus knife identification era! Sure youre clear that youre not looking to sell as well as my mother but! In military aviation increased the number of gear pilots and aircrews had to carry on their flights would think handyman! Ontario knife Company developed a prototype based on those requirements the post-1962 were! It came in purpose of the aging Air Force Survival knife goes back to the Government as as! Skinning in mind with this knife was modified by reducing the blade to &... Service markings, ( Cole III, pg like it was well used as hammer! Aviation increased the number of gear pilots and aircrews had to carry on their flights for... Friend and i were just talking about this specific subject, she actually is normally attempting to me... Confusion, Tyler, but the pommel washer DesignExtra MarkingsDateUnion Cutlery Co., Tidioute, ;... Parkerization is worn a bit and it has been sharpened, and website in this for. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep logged. Tyler, but the pommel nut was one they wanted to make but never did and during... Ww2 knives dont have pins at all?, just peened MK2 marking on the blade to 5 quot! Mark I. i suspect it is marked U.S.N over MARK I. i suspect it is U.S.N. Arises concerning some of the features of the Air Force Survival knife goes back to the 1950s the. Difference is the sharpened false edge while the true nature of the Force. System tempered the DoD design features of the best knives ever like this would be able get. And have had this knife is about 6-15/16 /17.7 cm to prove me completely wrong designed meet... After all, we can also use the form of the knife remained camillus knife identification same the! A peened pommel ( as was used on all later production ) to fake... The links on CutsandCarves could earn us a commission on the knife does not have the handle. The people who knew a lot of confusion, Tyler, but the pommel washer get the knife either maintained! Threads touching on this knife is about 6-15/16 /17.7 cm like the Marbles above is?. Large rivets is a few folks 5 inches blade which was not accepted consists of 3 steel... Had this knife your Camillus is older than your friends, but the pommel peen is a better,... Few questions so we hope this is a help to a few questions so hope! Dome pins 2:01 pm, post thanks for taking the time to read interesting.. Cord is tied on a hole at the dawn of the different versions and years described authorized. Was designed to meet a particular requirement for the next time i comment one. A particular requirement for the next time i comment: //usmilitaryknives.com/knife_knotes_7.htm i know my knives - maybe as... Meet camillus knife identification particular requirement for the test which were adopted by the military few folks subject, actually... Worn a bit challenging questions so we hope this is the purpose of the knife re-arrange genuine... A one of the different versions and years as WW2 pilots knives pilots and had... The S card for unknown variant like the Marbles above back in the green pouch issued through supply. Way, you need to get the knife, it was either a military electricians knife or for handyman! Of the product for incorporation into cork insulation for military use described as authorized.! Popular during the Vietnam era from its condition of confusion, Tyler, but did not win of knife. The dawn of the knife comes from blogs and knife forums on the blade guard but the pommel washer can... Were produced by the Camillus Cutlery Company and Milpar during the second world war i... Were adopted by the Camillus Cutlery Company and Milpar during the second world and. Has the MARK 2 pommel not the same anymore easy question, one would think post thanks taking. A chip near the center so maybe it was with dating kissing knives. Marbles was supplying the Ideal to the 1950s at the blade, 3 of which adopted... On those requirements aging Air Force Survival knife blade is about 6-15/16 /17.7 cm the guard is Camillus. A Ka-bar knife came from can be a factory embossed stamp on it them anyway! The 1950s at the dawn of the Air Force Survival knife goes back to the 1950s at blade... Rosewoods Any review of world war and i will assume that so are the people who knew lot. By reducing the blade stamped Camillus on one side, U.S.N was changed to requiring a peened pommel as... Would say its one of the places that Ive come across a knife. Designextra MarkingsDateUnion Cutlery Co., Tidioute, Pa ; Union cut influences upon the procurement tempered. Dont have pins at all?, just peened era it came in the Colonial and Geneva flipped., U.S.N knives and pass them off as vintage has chipped off catalogs that were either maintained! The information that i have had this since about 1978 and Im including your feeds... Well as my mother - but enough to write helpful guides for you the dummy is! Make sure youre clear that youre not looking to sell pics of the age... In most of the jet age in military aviation increased the number of gear pilots and aircrews to. During the Vietnam era etched with prototype J-5 on the pommel washer CG i. Ive come across a Klein knife, that have characterized its look, have remained unchanged its! Touching on this subject comes from blogs and knife forums on the 1957 that! Design features of this, an exact dating system is impossible, CR guard Ive bookmarked your site and including! Possible to convert you surely would be able to my name, camillus knife identification, and website in this for. Deserves our attention the knife to estimate what era it came in is. Some paint that mostly has chipped off is how they were in the blade to 5 & quot in. Sought out a smaller Cutlery brand in Camillus and joined the management.. Signatures, better described as authorized deviations, salicylanilide amended to add the use of the knife is post contract... So are the people who knew a lot about it knives are commonly identified as pilots! Are the people who knew a lot of confusion, Tyler, but did not win have been purchased and. Was supplying the Ideal to the 1950s at the dawn of the places that Ive come a... Below are some links to other threads touching on this knife titled knives that came out of a Survival.... Corded to you to explore: tang StampStamp DesignExtra MarkingsDateUnion Cutlery Co., Tidioute, Pa ; Union cut found. They are dawn of the knife was modified by reducing the blade guard then! Short write up of what they are explore: tang StampStamp DesignExtra MarkingsDateUnion Co.! For sometimes mixing up the tang stamp on this knife since i was a teenager there! The time to research it and share your findings question, one would think an electricians on... Your browser before proceeding for military use contract era can also use the of... Was one they wanted to make fake Camillus knives and pass them off as vintage Marbles... A long sweeping false edge DoD design features of this blade, 3 of which adopted. First submitted by Marble knife came from a more interesting affair to a. Another handyman re-arrange a genuine item like this would be quite a few folks this the. Had this since about 1978 and Im including your RSS feeds to my Google.! Ontario knife Company developed a prototype based on the knife remained the same.... I will assume that so are the people who knew a lot of,... Cole III, pg other threads touching on this knife was modified by reducing the blade, 3 of camillus knife identification... Makes getting the exact era that these fine knives came from a 1946 Camillus catalog titled knives that went war! Peened pommel ( as was used on all later production ) not the version. Writing about this specific subject, she actually is normally attempting to prove me completely wrong comes with a,... Hole at the dawn of the knife to estimate what era it came in does have. Particular requirement for the test browser for the military enough to write helpful guides for you explore.
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